Showing logs for date: 2022-06-15
03:48:43 <linda> hello
03:48:54 <linda> I guess you did it
03:50:24 <Kat> Hi - yes I moved it but it's having a hard time focusing
03:51:37 <linda> aneeds coffee
03:52:05 <Kat> I do too
03:52:20 <linda> lighting is weird, maybe as it gets lighter it will focus
03:52:40 <Kat> looks overcast
03:53:12 <Kat> full moon tonight?
03:53:31 <linda> yeah, unbelievable I was just reading press release from last night. I'm seriously considering just bagging it for this year. Too much money to get there and not have anything
03:53:55 <linda> and that's assuming I get in
03:54:36 <linda> G looks steamy
03:55:49 <linda> The hill looks like it's floating in space lol
03:57:13 <Kat> :thumbsup:
03:59:18 <linda> full moon two days ago maybe 3
03:59:41 <Kat> I don't think Roosevelt will reopen, there will be gates and you won't even be able to drive Dunraven. You could shorten your trip and just go to OF - you could probably get s a few extra nights added there
04:00:41 <Kat> OF
04:01:31 <linda> yeah Roosevelt is a loss. I have to think about it. It would be just OF area. Oh well I haven't even left for this coming trip yet
04:09:22 <Kat> :lion:
04:28:52 <linda> one more click :)
05:24:14 <Kat> Castle lion
05:48:51 <linda> hey stop taking all my geysers!
05:53:06 <Kat> Sorry - I told them to wait!
05:53:24 <linda> :)
06:11:35 <linda> amazing no one died throughout this flooding. Thank Goodness!
06:39:46 <Kat> So true - a number of high water rescues happened
06:53:12 <linda> ok, I'm going to sign in
06:53:25 <Kat> Go for it...morning Dave
06:53:38 <Kat> linda, I got up way to early!
06:53:58 <Kat> linda, have a good drive
06:54:01 <linda> seriously >(
06:54:07 <linda> Kat, thanks
06:54:14 <Dave from B™> Morning Kat, Linda
06:54:27 <linda> Dave from B™, morning
06:55:22 <Kat> I left you Bee and Daisy
06:55:30 <Kat> :lol:
06:55:40 <linda> :)
06:56:52 <Dave from B™> and Riverside
06:57:04 <Dave from B™> and OF:)
06:57:58 <linda> :)
06:58:25 <linda> and Giantess >(
06:58:37 <linda> morning Craig
06:58:46 <CraigC> linda, howdy :)
06:58:53 <Kat> Hi Craig
06:59:00 <CraigC> Kat, hey :)
07:01:34 <Dave from B™> Morning Craig
07:02:53 <CraigC> Dave from B™, hey dude
07:03:34 <CraigC> just read a post from Art; he is storing his RV rig and they are flying home
07:03:43 <linda> Enjoy this OF interlude brought to you by the National Park Service :)
07:04:28 <linda> sure did leave people scrambling
07:09:33 <Dave from B™> I've been impressed thus far with how organized NPS and Park County have been.
07:10:57 <Dave from B™> I'm very interested in what NPS decides about the Mammoth-Gardiner road. I have a feeling they will move it.
07:11:04 <CraigC> hey Ben, what's up
07:11:15 <BenVL> Hey Craig!
07:11:28 <CraigC> Dave from B™, I read somewhere yesterday that is looks like they will
07:11:33 <KorbenC> Hi Criag, Ben
07:11:54 <BenVL> Well, having to delay the next trip a little
07:12:04 <CraigC> BenVL, how much delay?
07:12:40 <BenVL> Was gonna be there starting next week for two weeks, but I pushed it back a week
07:12:57 <CraigC> where will you be able to stay?
07:13:33 <KorbenC> BenVL, hopefully that is enough time for lake madison to drain
07:13:47 <BenVL> I was able to get reservations at madison, hoping everything is okay on the lower loop by then
07:14:12 <CraigC> I hope it works out for you
07:14:25 <CraigC> say hey to Spa for me
07:14:39 <linda> OF
07:14:40 <BenVL> Will do haha
07:15:05 <BenVL> Saw a couple really great bursts out of it in may
07:15:17 <CraigC> from low pool?
07:15:29 <BenVL> Yeah
07:15:51 <CraigC> you ever going to do FB or IG to shar your pics and videos?
07:16:19 <BenVL> Not likely :/
07:16:26 <CraigC> how about YT?
07:16:42 <BenVL> That last trip didn't have much in the way of photos as it is...
07:17:08 <BenVL> YT is more likely. I have some good F&M vids I might eventually put up
07:17:18 <CraigC> do it
07:19:49 <KorbenC> Craig and I rarely agree, but I agree! lol
07:20:46 <BenVL> Don't really have any SB videos though
07:20:58 <linda> splash
07:21:59 <CraigC> I have more Mugwump videos that anyone wants
07:22:05 <CraigC> than
07:22:16 <BenVL> Poor mug
07:22:38 <Ryan> I think I have Slot videos buried somewhere that never got posted
07:22:52 <BenVL> Little brother is cute but it's definitely not as good
07:22:54 <CraigC> I have a Slit video LOL
07:23:09 <Ryan> Buried very, very deeo in the dark recesses of a hard drive. Video may be growing mold...
07:24:02 <CraigC> got a plethora of Grotto start vids
07:24:17 <Ryan> In 2014 I actually took a number of videos, almost as many as I did photos. Was the only year for that.
07:24:57 <BenVL> I do have a couple bulger hole videos
07:25:31 <CraigC> can you believe I have never observed a BH
07:25:43 <Ryan> Yes, actually.
07:26:06 <Dave from B™> CraigC, I don't believe that. That is a gazer requirement!
07:26:17 <BenVL> Wait have you actually not seen bee?
07:26:20 <Ryan> Your timing into geysers makes that seem pretty reasonable actually.
07:26:45 <CraigC> BenVL, Bulgers Hole
07:26:54 <BenVL> OOOHH
07:26:59 <Dave from B™> I know you like the quieter half f the basin
07:27:00 <linda> :)
07:27:11 <Ryan> I would have believed Beehive, too.
07:27:16 <BenVL> I was about to say...
07:27:24 <Dave from B™> hahaha
07:27:38 <BenVL> The hole is actually pretty difficult to catch
07:28:36 <BenVL> Have to be over at grand a lot
07:28:48 <CraigC> that is where I am almost always during Grand windows.... I rarely go to the benches unless I am showing friends
07:28:50 <Ryan> My other half started going to the park with me when Steamboat still had a ball and chain around most of us - and by that time Beehive was getting really irregular.
07:29:39 <Ryan> She has seen Beehive but only once up close. The rest were from a far distance. I could see how that combination could maker a relatively new gazer miss seeinf Beehive.
07:30:06 <Ryan> She has, however, seen a Great Fountain superburst, twice, in two consecutive eruptions.
07:30:31 <Ryan> One of which I had to pay the rental company to clean off the car :(
07:31:55 <BenVL> Allrighty well I gotta go. Good to see you again Craig
07:32:10 <CraigC> BenVL, cool talking to you, hope your plans work out
07:32:22 <Ryan> Adios, Ben. Good luck.
07:37:20 <Dave from B™> I wonder if high water will effect any geysers. F&M would come to mind. Any others?
07:38:16 <Ryan> Probably just the ones with known surface influences.
07:38:25 <Ryan> Not sure this was enough to affect the deep aquifers.
07:39:54 <KorbenC> I was surprised to see those sub 1hr 45min Daisy intervals right after the heavy rain, but I think that might be coincidence
07:55:40 <linda> im thinking daisy soon but its not showing
07:57:33 <Dave from B™> The last Daisy on GT is 2342 ns wc.
07:58:19 <linda> yeah been a little over 8 hrs
08:02:22 <Ryan> Korben, I'd be a bit hard pressed to say with certainty that Daisy didn't react to the rain
08:02:40 <linda> rivewrside ie
08:03:27 <Ryan> Daisy is known to have responses to weather (wind), so having an abnormal change in intervals during a notably abnormal weather event wouldn't be unreasonable. But the opposite effect happened - which is confusing.
08:06:13 <linda> It's been very regular
08:06:39 <linda> unless it went way early
08:07:51 <Dave from B™> I have a hard time thinking jury selection is random when 3 of the 5 in my family have been selcted for the 12 month pool beginning Sept 1, 2022
08:13:11 <Dave from B™> Linda, I wonder if there still is an island on your lake
08:13:31 <linda> Dave from B™, :-/
08:13:39 <linda> oh my1
08:15:59 <linda> daisy
08:21:13 <KorbenC> Weird to see blue sky everywhere
08:21:52 <Dave from B™> The heat is coming. Glacier area is starting to see flooding now
08:22:41 <KorbenC> Hopefully this upcoming heat and rain wave wont bump things up too much
08:26:47 <Dave from B™> I feel we would have to have another rain event to see a big bump up. I would expect levels are still dropping in the area
08:27:52 <Ryan> Yeah I dont think there will likely be a round two like the first
08:28:02 <linda> so I guess daisy lengthened its intervals
08:30:11 <Ryan> I was talking to local friends and found out where the news has been coming from. Folks in Gardiner and elsewhere were attending local meetings, and they got the news first (as they should be) which then got put on social media. Likewise, the NPS usually issues press releases before uploading to social media.
08:30:46 <Ryan> In the chaos of two days ago I think it is very appropriate that the NPS and local officials told local residents and stranded tourists before everyone else.
08:32:52 <Dave from B™> Communication has been great during this event
08:33:08 <Ryan> Yup, I think its been wonderful.
08:33:45 <KorbenC> I was slightly irked by how long it took the NPS to get out information, but I think it was amazing given the situation
08:34:18 <Dave from B™> Korben, what info was slow getting out?
08:35:18 <KorbenC> I guess it was kinda annoying that I heard about the gates closing three hours before the NPS updated it, but again, given the situation that is very timely
08:35:51 <Ryan> Three hours makes sense
08:36:55 <KorbenC> Ryan, looking back on it yes, but in the moment not so much :)
08:37:06 <Larry in Denver> I saw multiple important items of information on 3rd party Facebook pages long before the NPS Facebook or Twitter feeds. Twitter is a quick way to get information out there and over the past few years I just haven't seen the Public Affairs office taking advantage of that.
08:37:58 <Ryan> Given the situation, I think the information got to where it needed to be and to whom it needed to be, when it needed to be.
08:38:44 <KorbenC> Indeed, but I still think it could have been better.
08:38:56 <Dave from B™> Yes, social media has helped but you have to still sift thru some misinformation
08:38:57 <Larry in Denver> For the many years that Al Nash was PA officer (and before Facebook and Twitter) I felt he got news releases out in a timely manner.
08:39:22 <Ryan> With all due respect, have either of you had to handle PA during a crisis?
08:39:41 <Ryan> I withhold any judgement as an external observer, personally.
08:39:52 <Larry in Denver> That's what they are paid to do, even if it means working after 5PM
08:40:09 <KorbenC> No, but that is why I say it could have been better not that it was bad, it was amazing for the situation but there is always room to improve.
08:40:35 <Larry in Denver> I'm just comparing a time when there was no Facebook or Twitter platform when I felt much better informed about breaking stories.
08:41:28 <KorbenC> I think PA got the necessary information to the impacted places like Gardiner and Mammoth very fast, but it could have been better in getting out to the rest of the public.
08:41:36 <Ryan> Again, I withhold judgement on how information is released to the public at large during a crisis. It is very easy to not fully appreciate the situation when you're not in the middle of it.
08:42:05 <Ryan> And I speak from unfortunate experience on both sides of that coin.
08:42:19 <KorbenC> and I understand that there was not much information and that they were busy doing other stuff, but it would have been helpful to have more up to date information getting out to the remainder of the public.
08:43:00 <KorbenC> but again, I will emphasize that the information got out in a timely and understanable manner, but that it could have been better. It can always be better.
08:43:00 <Dave from B™> It takes time to evaluate the situation when you are talking about an area larger than some states
08:43:23 <Larry in Denver> Case in point: I saw the Superintendents comprehensive list of their response to the situation on other sites way long before it was published on any NPS site.
08:43:56 <Ryan> As I said, Larry, it went out in meeting to the locals first and they got it to SM before the NPS did.
08:44:16 <Ryan> If I understand correctly, the NPS Admin offices were in Mammoth - where there was no power.
08:44:35 <Larry in Denver> But why? Why not release it to everyone impacted?
08:44:36 <KorbenC> I still believe that looking back on data, this should have been anticipated.
08:44:56 <Ryan> I respectfully back away from this conversation.
08:44:59 <Larry in Denver> They have generators i Mammoth.
08:45:07 <KorbenC> Ryan, :)
08:45:38 <KorbenC> I respectfully back away from this conversation as well. We all have our opinions, to each their own.
08:45:45 <Ryan> I do hope neither of you are in the situation that the NPS has been in the last couple of days - because it sucks. Then the Monday morning armchair quarterbacking sucks even more.
08:46:21 <Ryan> There is nothing you can do correctly - you only hope and pray you're given grace by the folks you're trying to serve.
08:46:26 <Ryan> And this is a good example of it.
08:47:41 <KorbenC> Just for the record, I respect and fully understand everyone's position on this subject, and I appreciate being able to have a civilized and respectful conversation about it.
08:49:48 <Ryan> "You play the ball where the monkey drops it."
08:50:56 <Ryan> The story goes that the Royal Calcutta Country Club had an issue with monkeys picking up golf balls that were being played on course. Sometimes they ran away with them, sometimes they just moved them.
08:51:21 <KorbenC> "Difference of opinion leads to inquiry and inquiry leads to truth" (I think that is what Jefferson said?)
08:51:40 <Ryan> They tried fences, bean bags, stun guns, and some even tried to pay sharpshooters to kill them. In the end the rule for that course was "you play where the monkey drops it"
08:52:09 <Ryan> And thats the first thing you're told about in any course or class on crisis management. You play with the ball where it was dropped.
08:52:46 <Dave from B™> As far as I'm concerned, local residents have a right to get the info first. They are the ones in the line of fiore.
08:52:50 <Ryan> I do not know from where the NPS was playing, and I will not pass any judgement on their decisions because of that.
08:52:53 <Ryan> Exactly, Dave.
08:53:08 <linda> OF
08:53:14 <Ryan> Their resources and energy were directed where it should have been. We are the last priority - as it should be.
08:53:35 <linda> NOPE
08:53:46 <KorbenC> Hi Linda
08:54:09 <linda> KorbenC, HI
08:55:58 <KorbenC> I just hope that since the sun is out, they can asses damage and reopen the park in a timely and safe manner
09:04:03 <linda> OF
09:05:39 <Ryan> Anyone know how to "reset" the chat?
09:05:47 <KorbenC> wdym?
09:06:07 <Ryan> Seems like over the last few days it hasn't closed out for me - I close the page but when I reopen it its not "new"
09:06:16 <Ryan> And now I can't PM anhyone because I reached a limit.
09:06:22 <Ryan> But I have no PMs open
09:06:48 <KorbenC> you might have to do /quit or just wait longer between opening it for me? But when I close it out and reopen it, it is "new"
09:07:03 <Ryan> hmm
09:07:13 <Ryan> There we go, that did it
09:07:15 <Ryan> Thanks
09:07:21 <KorbenC> Good, tw
09:07:25 <KorbenC> yw*
09:07:41 <Kat> Hi all
09:11:22 <linda> Kat, HI
09:12:22 <KorbenC> Hi Kat
09:25:14 <linda> BULGER IE
09:26:17 <linda> tardy ie
09:31:05 <Katie> Mornin'
09:31:30 <Ryan> Mornin'
09:46:15 <Dave from B™> Morning Katie. I heat Flathead area got a lot of rain. How about you?
09:47:11 <Dave from B™> hear*
09:48:24 <Dave from B™> If there are any park history buffs on here, I'm curious if there is any documenttation of other possible road alignments for the Mammoth to Gardiner road. I did find this link of the history of the road...
09:48:35 <Dave from B™> http://npshistory.com/publications/yell/hrs-roads/chap13.htm
09:49:27 <Katie> We got a lot of rain, but only flooding in flood plains. The work done after the flooding 5-6 years ago may have helped. We lamented last week that a "hill" at Caras Park was removed (an artificial hill). That spot is covered, but now flat and under the surface its a big catchment.
09:50:58 <Katie> We lamented because kids loved rolling down that hill and we have fond memories of that. But now that area is a flat grassy area (where play will be allowed in future) that serves a purpose. Urban park, never was a natural hill...
09:51:54 <Dave from B™> I noticed Missoula has worked hard at making the river area public area for many.
10:00:02 <linda> perry mason music?
10:00:38 <Kevin L™ 🌵> I hear it
10:00:50 <linda> Kevin L™ 🌵, :)
10:01:04 <linda> controls released
10:02:12 <Ryan> Nice BH splash
10:02:12 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Got them
10:02:16 <Ryan> maybe we will see it today
10:02:31 <Dave from B™> Morning Kevin
10:03:21 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Morning Dave.
10:07:10 <linda> Kevin L™ 🌵, I think daisy may have lengthened its interval a bit
10:09:15 <KorbenC> I see Xanterra closed Mammoth and Roosevelt for the remainder of the season
10:09:33 <KorbenC> Or at least they are not accepting reservations for the reaminder of the year
10:10:45 <linda> KorbenC, bummer
10:11:17 <linda> KorbenC, there go those reservations
10:11:24 <Ryan> I thought that was announced yesterday
10:11:43 <Dave from B™> Yes, that was announced yesterday
10:11:58 <KorbenC> Unfortunate :(
10:13:10 <KorbenC> I presume they are moving the staff to properties on the south loop then?
10:13:44 <Dave from B™> Yes, search for Supt Sholly announcement yesterday. There is a lot of info there
10:14:30 <KorbenC> Dave from B™, I am listening to yesterdays press conference rn
10:14:36 <Chancellor> Personally, I hope the south loop opens Monday or Tuesday since we have reservations at OF Inn on Friday
10:15:55 <KorbenC> According to Sholly the goal for south loop opening is "a week or less," I think the question is whether or not Xanterra will be opening, or if it will remain day use only
10:17:44 <Dave from B™> My feeling is Xanterra will be ready when the park opens
10:18:08 <KorbenC> I hope so
10:18:29 <Ryan> I think so, too. The same systems the park needs to reopen are the ones Xanterra needs.
10:18:42 <Ryan> Hopefully this will solve some of the staffing problems
10:19:14 <Chancellor> If they have staff, I would assume Xanterra would want to open Hotel/food/concession options
10:19:21 <Dave from B™> I hope concessionaires didn't lose too many emplyees
10:19:25 <KorbenC> that would be nice, is there a way for them to get their supplies from Gardiner to the south loop?
10:19:46 <linda> daisy
10:19:57 <Dave from B™> Korben, they are working on the Old Gardiner to Mammoth road to open to supplies and staff only
10:20:07 <KorbenC> :thumbsup:
10:20:11 <Ryan> And Mammoth-Norris is OK I think
10:20:31 <Dave from B™> Korben, have you been on the Old GM road?
10:20:56 <Kevin L™ 🌵> I think it was a short Linda. :)
10:20:57 <linda> daisy 10:16
10:21:04 <KorbenC> No, it is one of the only roads in YNP I haven't done.
10:21:39 <linda> Kevin L™ 🌵, daisy? :)
10:22:33 <Dave from B™> It is a narrow windy one way road going from Mammoth to Gardiner. I had the pleasure of using it when there was an accident in the canyon during one of my futile SB adventures. I'm not sure how Xanterra trucks will do on that dirt road
10:23:10 <Dave from B™> Or, maybe they will have to setup a warehouse in West to just serve the south for this year
10:25:11 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Either West or Jackson would be my guess.
10:28:42 <KorbenC> Does Xanterra need the go ahead from the NPS to open their lodges once the roads open?
10:29:41 <Chancellor> Assumingly, they would need to cooperate if there were some kind of "limited entry" system
10:29:52 <KorbenC> :thumbsup:
10:30:25 <Chancellor> especially for those who have lodging, camping reservations at places which are opening
10:42:08 <Dave from B™> Xanterra won't be involved in reservation system. Anyone who has a park lodging reservation will not need a park reservation. That is the way it works in other parks.
10:42:50 <linda> cancelled my car reservation but it will take a while to get up the nerve to cancel OF reservation
10:43:01 <Dave from B™> Most likely, you will need to show your reservation to the entrance gate to get a sticker for your trip
10:43:33 <Dave from B™> Linda, you had to have both?
10:44:26 <linda> Dave from B™, both roosevelt and OF is what I had
10:44:45 <Dave from B™> But you said you had a car reservation.
10:44:57 <KorbenC> If you keep an eye out, you might be able to find a few more days to add onto your OF reservations if you want
10:46:10 <linda> Dave from B™, yes I did but it started up in bozeman on 29 and roosevelt cancelled
10:46:25 <linda> sooo I may just cut my losses
10:46:46 <Dave from B™> I misunderstood. My bad
10:46:53 <linda> Dave from B™, no problem
10:47:06 <linda> I have to think about all this
10:47:56 <Chancellor> Thats good to know, thanks
10:48:35 <linda> between gas prices and car rental prices it was going to be a very, very expensive trip. I humored myself because everything seemed to be open, but I don't want to pay that kind of money for limited servicese
10:51:01 <Dave from B™> For any wildlife lover, the Lamar being closed is a deal breaker for many
10:51:27 <linda> Dave from B™, yes definitely that was a big draw for me up north
10:52:01 <linda> I could reduce to a wee and stay in south but...k
10:52:50 <Chancellor> admittedly I would like to travel to Lamar, but we will need to look at animals in Hayden and other places if possible next week
10:56:44 <Dave from B™> I just heard that Billings water plant was shut down last night. The city has a day and a half of water left. River needs to drop a foot to open the plant again.
10:59:37 <Dave from B™> Based on a KTVQ (Billings TV) report, Sholly has staed Mammoth Gardiner road will be rebuilt in its same location.
11:19:44 <Ryan> Little Squirt
11:20:04 <Katie> Dave from B™, I saw that news. Yikes!
11:24:16 <KorbenC> Dave, when was that news posted? In the press conference yesterday Sholly said they might move the road back a bit?
11:29:57 <Dave from B™> Reporters can get stories wrong. I'm trying top find another source with that same info. I would expect Sholly to talk today as well. Not sure when.
11:31:32 <KorbenC> Very true, whether or not the road moves may change as more information becomes available as well
11:33:30 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Moving a road in a National Park is NOT easy. Many studies and hearings needed along with several public meetings and input. Fixing an existing road in place, not a problem.
11:33:49 <KorbenC> Kevin L™ 🌵, good point
11:34:19 <Chancellor> I agree
11:36:17 <Dave from B™> Kevin, I imagine there has been an EIS on that road segment at some time in YNP history. I wish I knew how to find it.
11:37:37 <Dave from B™> Let's just build a tunnel!:)
11:38:37 <Kevin L™ 🌵> I think in that area it would really make problems with a tunnel!
11:39:05 <Chancellor> or a North loop Monorail system
11:39:51 <Kevin L™ 🌵> My favorite comment from a public input: "Please do not put your freeway through our church because it will disturb the Father's speaking."
11:40:15 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Monorail would be cool. Great views.
11:42:46 <Chancellor> giant parking garages in or near Gardiner, Norris, Canyon, NE spur
11:49:25 <Ryan> Honestly I hope this spurs on blanket timed entries during certain hours of the day, with priority to folks staying in the park.
11:49:34 <Ryan> And with every person in a tour bus counted.
11:50:13 <Ryan> The park can not continue to handle the amount of people it is receiving and I think we all know that if we are being honest with ourselves.
11:50:36 <Ryan> And we all know it sometimes takes a disaster to change the status quo :(
11:55:47 <Dave from B™> It was enjoyable in the Yosemite Valley last month...not as many visitors because of reservation system.
11:56:18 <Dave from B™> However, lots of people came in for the evening when no system is in place.
12:00:04 <Ryan> I am planning a trip to a couple timed entry parks and that is my plan.
12:00:34 <KorbenC> Ryan, if you come to RMNP let me know
12:01:20 <Ryan> Right now the plan is to be in the Bighorn Mountains for a week in August. Where I go from there afterwards is now up for debate.
12:01:25 <Ryan> Especially after the last couple days.
12:05:51 <Ryan(store)> Reading lots of responses on social media, here, and with friends, etc. I think its important to remember that "you don't know what you don't know".
12:06:11 <Ryan(store)> Probably good to give everyone a break all around. Been a long few days, everyone's pretty raw. Hang in there, friends <3
12:14:09 <ynpvisitor11> is today Flag Day?
12:16:48 <Katie> ynpvisitor11, yeah, that's... interesting... isn't it?
12:17:03 <DanS working> ynpvisitor11, yesterday the 14th
12:17:09 <ynpvisitor11> interesting.... yeah Craig here
12:17:53 <Dave from B™> Are you sure it isn't a cheerleader who is practicing on vacation?
12:18:12 <DanS working> shooting vid?
12:18:41 <ynpvisitor11> the friend is keeping appropriate distance
12:21:06 <Kevin L™ 🌵> of
12:25:28 <ynpvisitor11> was that person on the far right off path?
12:25:59 <ynpvisitor11> probably just illusion because of thbenches
12:30:25 <3> so OFVEC is working? I did not expect predictions from NPS today
12:31:42 <3> perhaps are working is the correct word
12:32:02 <Kevin L™ 🌵> They had them yesterday
12:32:50 <ynpvisitor11> supplies going thru gate at west
12:33:53 <Dave from B™> Probably beer
12:36:16 <Dave from B™> 3, right now, just think of it as a few days before the beginning of the summer season
12:37:09 <3> I don't remember ever seeing VEC predictions until opening day before
12:37:31 <3> I guess they want something to do, must be quite a change from how hectic it was
12:38:24 <Dave from B™> Yeah, staff is in the area. That have to do something:)
12:38:49 <KorbenC> I take the fact that they arent evacuating staff as a good sign :)
12:39:07 <3> no need to, things are fine from OF to West
12:39:40 <3> I don't think any water even went over the road on that route
12:40:05 <3> these posts with comments about people saying the park will not open for years are just nuts
12:40:18 <3> they must not know Yellowstone very well
12:40:20 <ynpvisitor11> lol
12:40:38 <Dave from B™> It was basically the Yellowstone river system that got overburdened
12:40:39 <3> have you seen those 11? on FB? Some comments are just wild
12:40:49 <ynpvisitor11> teh innerwebs, where any nut can pretend to be smart
12:40:52 <3> Dave, how are things in Billings?
12:41:01 <Dave from B™> 3, I agree. They know nothing. Probably the same group who said the fires would detroy the park
12:41:04 <3> any flooding?
12:41:15 <KorbenC> I wonder what Mary Greely is thinking right now, lol
12:41:18 <ynpvisitor11> 3, reddit is scarier than FB I decided
12:41:29 <Dave from B™> 3,Trying to save water for a couple days while water plant is shut down to avoid contamination
12:41:30 <3> I don't have Reddit
12:41:51 <3> I did see a post about that. No flooding concerns though?
12:42:05 <KorbenC> Dave from B™, hopefully your river drops soon
12:42:14 <Dave from B™> I haven't seen pictures but the usual roads in this area are closed that seem to close in high water most years
12:42:38 <Dave from B™> Most of Billings is far above the river
12:43:44 <3> that is good
12:43:57 <ynpvisitor11> I made the mistake of using google earth to zoom in to Red Lodge at a low angle..... kinda makes one question who decided to build a city in such a pronounced flood plain with vast land just above
12:44:42 <3> riverfront property dreams?
12:45:15 <3> I'm sure some of the Gardner river bank folks which they were a bit further away right now
12:45:51 <ynpvisitor11> some locations dont have much choice, but check out red lodge, and where the airport is above the city
12:46:36 <Ryan> Sure its a flood plain?
12:46:40 <Dave from B™> 11, the fairgrounds takes up a lot of the ground up by the airport plus a golf course with lots of housing
12:46:56 <3> I heard from an YNP old timer that the NPS building that went into the river was purchased property, not built by NPS so close to the river.
12:47:17 <Dave from B™> Again, this is a 100-500 year event. It's hard to plan for that
12:47:31 <3> is there such a thing anymore?
12:47:42 <3> these might be 10 year events now, who knows
12:47:43 <ynpvisitor11> not sure, but it appears to walk like a duck and talk like a duck..... call it what you will, it looks like a bad spot
12:48:02 <Dave from B™> I hope more staff housing and Gardiner employee housing can be built in Gardiner after this. There already was a huge shortage
12:48:07 <3> yes, but NPS is desperate for housing, so they converted that for employees
12:48:29 <3> is there available land to build?
12:48:29 <Ryan> I haven't looked, but I know in some places its not a flood plain - its a broad valley filled with ash deposits that the river then cut down through.
12:48:43 <Ryan> Looks like a flood plain - and i guess in its geologic infancy acts like one, too.
12:48:55 <ynpvisitor11> dont call it a flood plain.... LOL
12:48:58 <3> Back to Red Lodge, some old time saloons and such were probably established and then the city built around them
12:49:16 <Ryan> Well, it is different than the flood plains we have here in the east.
12:49:26 <Dave from B™> I just read a report that is asking visitors to stay away from Red Lodge right now. They are not open for business
12:50:04 <Ryan> And in reality it may not be a flood plain. It may just be that this was just that bad of a flood that it managed to overflow the channel it carved itself.
12:50:10 <ynpvisitor11> omh
12:50:21 <ynpvisitor11> pretend I never called it anything....lol
12:50:30 <Dave from B™> 3, you are probably correct. It was a mining town. Mines need water so everything builds up around it
12:50:49 <Ryan> For long term construction and infrastructure plans the difference is actually pretty important. One indicates that floods happen routinely, and the other doesn't. That could answer your question.
12:51:50 <Ryan> Easy Craig, I am only providing a response to a question you asked. You asked why someone would build in an obvious flood plain - if it isnt actually a flood plain that answers your question, doesn't it?
12:54:04 <Dave from B™> I really truly believe this flood was an extremely rare event. It was a perfect storm in effect. Cool spring with snow accumulation rather than snow melt and then heavy rain after 3 weeks of daily showers.
12:54:27 <Dave from B™> rain on top of all that snow that was ready to melt
12:54:36 <Ryan> I would agree.
12:54:59 <Dave from B™> Red Lodge does have a history of floods but nothing close to this
12:55:40 <Ryan> https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/Prodesc/proddesc_77010.htm
12:55:50 <3> tough years for them. This time last year they were canceling events because of impending fire danger
12:55:56 <3> Grand
12:55:59 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Grand
12:57:06 <Dave from B™> Haven't we all had a tough 3 years. I'm exhausted
12:57:17 <Ryan> That answers your question, Craig. The narrowest channel around the river is the common flood plain, but much of what happened here is in the "youngest alluvial terrace".
12:58:19 <Ryan> Which is a flood plain - but the chances of it flooding are kind of like the chances of an active volcano having a very large eruption. They exist, but I dont think they are high enough to influence long term planning.
12:58:22 <3> how are you exhausted Dave? Don't you travel all over?
12:59:42 <Dave from B™> Staff changes all the time, businesses opening and closing with covid, it's something different to deal with everyday
13:00:05 <3> I do get how you are exhausted, just thought I should point out you go on 3 week holidays
13:00:08 <Kitt> Tara asked that I let cam people know that the Geo Team will be working off boardwalk around Old Faithful today
13:00:12 <3> working holidays, yet holidays
13:00:17 <Dave from B™> It's getting a little better but it is exhausting. The only way I have survived is getting out of here away from it.
13:00:50 <Dave from B™> During 3 week holidays as you put it, I work 2-3 hours everyday including the weekend.
13:01:12 <3> I did acknowledge that.
13:01:22 <Dave from B™> If my kids weren't interested in taking over the business I would have sold
13:01:24 <3> nice you can work from the road
13:01:49 <3> I hope it does as well for them as it has for you
13:02:04 <ynpvisitor11> do your kids eat fish?
13:02:37 <Dave from B™> Yes, they both love fish.
13:02:57 <ynpvisitor11> glad they turned out normal
13:03:06 <Dave from B™> We need to build a 2nd location in Bozeman and I'm not sure I have the energy to do it.
13:03:25 <Dave from B™> haha Craig...who said anything about them being normal?
13:03:36 <ynpvisitor11> normaler
13:03:44 <Kitt> looks like there are a few people enjoying Grand
13:03:50 <3> that would be taking on a lot at this stage in the game for you
13:04:00 <Dave from B™> Sorry, I didn't mean to complain but I think everyone is stressed more these days
13:04:15 <3> agreed
13:04:22 <3> 2nd
13:04:30 <Dave from B™> 3, but it may be necessary to protect our market share in an extremely fast growing part of the state
13:05:07 <3> well make sure they are on board for what that means because otherwise you might be working a lot longer than you want
13:06:39 <Dave from B™> They know what it means but it would mean me working longer. I'm weighing whether that is the parental thing to do to help the next generation even at the expense of a shorter retirement
13:06:48 <3> nice long Grand
13:08:31 <Kitt> Ok, will post again so cam driver will know
13:08:41 <3> Fed raised interest rates again by .75%. That will put a further halt to the crazy housing market
13:09:23 <Kitt> Tara asked that I let chat know that the Geo Team will be off the boardwalk in the Old Faithful area today
13:09:39 <KorbenC> Kitt, hey there
13:09:53 <Kitt> hi
13:10:23 <Dave from B™> Thanks Kitt
13:10:47 <Dave from B™> #, I just saw that. That is going to hurt
13:10:50 <Dave from B™> 3*
13:11:07 <Kitt> so are the people roaming the basin employees?
13:11:26 <Kitt> I thought everyone was sent out of the park?
13:11:29 <3> yes
13:11:53 <3> still don't know who Dinosaurs aren't Real is, but Brandon, Russell, Jeff L, all employees
13:13:19 <3> it's suprising more are not out as they cannot go hiking
13:13:53 <Kitt> Dinosaurs aren't real is Samuel Miller
13:14:29 <KorbenC> I believe I remember him working at Snow Lodge?
13:14:29 <64> Do you know him?
13:14:38 <Kitt> no
13:15:18 <Kitt> I thought RMichaels was from Dillon, MT and is in law
13:15:33 <ynpvisitor11> still from Dillon
13:15:51 <ynpvisitor11> he left prosecutiing last year
13:16:00 <Kitt> oh, didn't know that
13:16:07 <64> Same person. Apparently he’s working in the park this year.
13:16:14 <Kitt> thanks for setting me straight
13:17:16 <Dave from B™> You can't ask all staffs; Xanterra, NPS, DN to just stay in their room
13:20:27 <Dave from B™> I can see no hiking. I'm sure nps is examining all trails
13:20:54 <Kat> and back counry camosites
13:21:06 <Kat> country*
13:23:04 <Dave from B™> I wonder how many trees were lost in the park to highwater
13:23:07 <ynpvisitor11> 3, should we be encouraged or scared by the interest hike? I'm not sure how I feel about it
13:25:39 <Dave from B™> We will be in a recession very soon. My line of credit costs have gone for 4% to 5.5% in 3.5 months. so, my interest costs have risen 37.5%. Guess who gets to get to pay for that...my customers
13:26:45 <Dave from B™> I think the economy was already slowing down. This will make it worse
13:27:47 <DanS working> Clueless PhD Economists making it up as they go...
13:29:34 <ynpvisitor11> how many economists agree on anything.... seems everyone is clueless on it, no?
13:30:34 <ynpvisitor11> post a quot from Robert Reich and watch the fireworks LOL
13:36:38 <ynpvisitor11> Reich: I understand the Fed’s urgency, but it has entered dangerous territory. If the Fed continues down this path – as it has signaled it will – the economy will be plunged into a recession. Every time over the last half century the Fed has raised interest rates this much and this quickly, it has caused a recession.
13:37:43 <Dave from B™> 11, That statement is very true
13:38:47 <ynpvisitor11> Dave from B™, here is all of it https://robertreich.substack.com/p/the-feds-big-mistake?fbclid=IwAR2LWKpIkodTWqkuMc7tP6Lhl5303OWg7zSZ_Bjb_FmOAyVOnmN_uDOf5xk&s=r
13:46:16 <3> The rich corporations will not be affected by it, it is all about them, always. Why not end subsidies to these huge companies making record profits? Why not tax them? Reich explains how they are price gouging in other posts. Unfortunately things are going to get a lot worse for the average business person, or someone counting on their retirement.
13:47:24 <Ryan> Be like my generation and accept you have no retirement to count on :D
13:47:57 <3> Not easy for someone who has worked their lives counting on it.
13:48:30 <Dave from B™> 3, when you tax cosrporations they pass on those costs. I don't understand why people don't see that
13:48:56 <Ryan> I was being a bit flippant, but the point stands to some extent. My generation doesn't expect to retire. We presume we will work until we die.
13:49:18 <Dave from B™> Ryan, your generation will have a hard time just owning a home
13:49:43 <Ryan> I certainly expect to. My entire life has been nothing but war, economic catastrophes, and natural disasters and they are just getting worse.
13:50:00 <Ryan> Oh, home owning is out of the question for me. As is having a family with kids.
13:50:48 <Ryan> I have two engineering degrees and I dont expect them to count for anything. I think that reality is catching up faster than the generations before me expected it would and its starting to hit them, too.
13:51:25 <Katie> An entire generation deciding not to have kids, or have kids 20 years later in life than previous generations, is going to be truly economically devastating. But who can blame them?
13:51:42 <3> it is a broken society when corporations own the politicians and expect free reign.
13:52:06 <Ryan> I dont trust there to be a stable world for them to grow in - neither economically nor environmentally.
13:52:12 <Dave from B™> 3, I can agree with the politician part. That is the problem. Wait until november
13:52:19 <Dave from B™> it will get worse
13:52:26 <3> you will always have Mormons Katie...and rich entitled people still have kids everywhere.
13:52:54 <Kevin L™ 🌵> It is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now Cutting taxes now is not to incur a budget deficit, but to achieve the more prosperous, expanding economy which can bring a budget surplus. John F Kennedy
13:52:58 <3> it is going to get so much worse
13:52:59 <Ryan> 3, thats when the 2% realize the true output generated by the 98%.
13:53:44 <3> their kids will have no one to "serve" them
13:53:49 <Katie> My cousin has 9 kids so far (Catholic). She has had all the kids the rest of us cousins either haven't or have had but won't reach adulthood. And she and her husband are raising awesome humans. They live frugally but reasonably.
13:53:50 <Ryan> Exactly
13:54:34 <3> Mormons are the new catholics, though there are some holdouts.
13:55:23 <Ryan> That doesn't even touch on the social aspects. For all our progress we've made some very disturbing regressions the last few years. Sucks when you're in a group you know is targeted.
13:55:43 <Katie> Yup.
13:55:44 <Ryan> I have very little faith in a safe and stable future for myself.
13:55:51 <3> having more kids should be taxed in days of climate change yet instead we give tax credits. It is so backwards
13:57:50 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Why not just kill off all the old people?
13:59:26 <Ryan> Our tax code certainly is broken. I just spent a year in poverty - and I do mean poverty. I passed out a couple times at work because I couldn't feed myself despite working three jobs.
13:59:28 <ynpvisitor11> let me get my mortgage paid off first so my daughter gets it fre and clear
14:00:00 <Ryan> I have to pay over $1500 in taxes this year because I didnt make enough money to have the taxes be withheld like most do.
14:00:01 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Make sure it is in a trust 11
14:00:09 <ynpvisitor11> Kevin L™ 🌵, done
14:00:50 <Ryan> and I am still not in a position where I can actually pay that. Think about it. That $1500 is nearly 5% of my income last year - income before taxes were taken out.
14:01:22 <Ryan> When I was making $70k/yr I got nearly $1800 in a refund. I get poor and I owe more money?
14:01:51 <Ryan> Something is very, very wrong.
14:02:20 <Dave from B™> your refund when you were working means you had too much taken out of your check not that your taxes were lower
14:02:47 <Kevin L™ 🌵> I did a consulting job about a year ago. Earned $1000. After Federal taxes I got $340. No state tax. Haven't done a job since. Not worth it.
14:03:29 <Ryan> I know that. I want to know how our tax code is set up so that when I am making barely enough money to survive I end up owing more - despite still having the same amount taken out percentage wise as when I made more.
14:04:09 <Ryan> (27%, for both $70k and $28k)
14:05:00 <Ryan> Adjusted, I paid roughly 24% in taxes when I made 70k and 32% when I made $28k.
14:05:22 <ynpvisitor11> separate corporate money from congress is the most critical step that could lead to changes
14:05:32 <Ryan> Absolutely
14:06:06 <ynpvisitor11> take away lobbying, campaign donations
14:06:51 <Ryan> We've already seen from the current SCOTUS that that wont happen though
14:06:52 <ynpvisitor11> then educate the masses on what really is and isnt Socialism LOL
14:07:31 <ynpvisitor11> affordable health care and affordable education is NOT socialism FFS
14:08:18 <Ryan> It is as much socialism as any of our infrastructure projects are. And the return on the investment is way higher.
14:08:39 <ynpvisitor11> I had both of those while Reagan was in office :)
14:10:27 <Ryan> Hey, the Washburn snowman is back
14:10:46 <KorbenC> Ryan, :D
14:13:09 <Ryan> We need a good geyser to get back to get back to what matters (aka, distract us from impending doom)
14:14:53 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Even the cam didn't want to go back to OF this time.
14:15:26 <Dave from B™> I thought BH was going to erupt this afternoon
14:16:46 <Kevin L™ 🌵> It may dave.
14:17:47 <Dave from B™> Don't you have bus duty?
14:17:58 <KorbenC> Geo team working on BH
14:18:17 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Chicken may need fed
14:19:39 <Dave from B™> It's been a long time, but I remember when you were still dealing with kids in school and you missed BH everyday for a week driving the "bus"
14:20:21 <Kevin L™ 🌵> I was glad when that was over
14:27:02 <Ryan> Aurum erupted during the bus, too
14:31:26 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Yes it did. Those kids hated my music too.
14:33:05 <Ryan> Ha, who programmed the "good luck"?
14:35:13 <DanS working> Am hoping that when all this precip percolates into system that Aurum restarts...
14:35:22 <KorbenC> Ryan, I think Eric
14:35:52 <Ryan> Needless to say we cant currently zoom in to look for the Bubbler
14:36:22 <KorbenC> If they spend too much time their they might get BH
14:37:34 <KorbenC> there* oops
14:56:10 <KorbenC> Looks like West Bubblers ie
15:16:36 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Doesn't look too perky but there were some good splashes
15:40:03 <Kevin L™ 🌵> OF
15:40:07 <Betty> hi all
15:40:13 <KorbenC> Betty, hi
15:40:23 <Ryan> Well there went the Fed hike
15:41:36 <Kevin L™ 🌵> No, that is OF Ryan.
15:41:37 <Betty> hi Kevin L™ 🌵, KorbenC, Ryan
15:42:11 <Ryan> A mediocre OF, thanks, Fed!
15:45:13 <Kevin L™ 🌵> I am going to guess a long
15:59:22 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Controls released
16:00:07 <Betty> thx for driving, Kevin :-)
16:14:02 <v> //getvideo [20] what?
16:14:37 <KorbenC> /me wonders what what?
17:41:35 <linda> Ahhh daisey
17:45:26 <KorbenC> Beehive is almost at five days :(
17:48:33 <KorbenC> "On the phone call today, there was much talk about the continually unfolding situation. It will take them 3-4 weeks to implement the reservation system and during that time, no overnight stays will happen in the park in an effort to ease the burden on the infrastructure. Food concessions will be open."
17:48:37 <KorbenC> According to Janet Jones
17:48:41 <Kevin L™ 🌵> ShiuMay sneak in one of those surprise eruptions without any notice.
17:54:50 <linda> KorbenC, wow lodging closed for a month?
17:55:48 <KorbenC> linda, according to Janet Jones's covnersation with the NPS
17:56:02 <linda> wow
18:10:52 <KorbenC> BSB
18:13:37 <Kevin L™ 🌵> That is promising
18:13:53 <AYates> That's a nice bubbler
18:25:13 <linda> nice
18:43:45 <linda> bulger ie
20:54:03 <DanS working> OF static
20:54:51 <Kevin L™ 🌵> At least the streaming is alive again.
20:55:03 <linda> hello
20:55:15 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Hi Linda
20:55:21 <linda> Kevin L™ 🌵, know any cool places to visit in Idaho?
20:56:57 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Craters of the Moon is nice.
20:57:07 <DanS working> Soda Springs - cool geyser there
20:57:14 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Yes
20:57:54 <linda> thx
20:58:06 <DanS working> Shoshone Falls probably running like crazy right now - Twin Falls, ID
20:58:30 <linda> Having a hard time letting go of my yellowstone reservation for OF. So I thought since Roosevelt is canceelled I could go to idaho for a few days
20:59:31 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Idaho Falls. It has a small but fun zoo too.
20:59:45 <linda> Kevin L™ 🌵, :)
20:59:45 <Mario> biking the Hiawatha trail near Coeur d'Alene is fantastic
20:59:58 <linda> Mario, :)
21:01:15 <Kevin L™ 🌵> There is a bear place North of Idaho Falls
21:01:16 <linda> thanks I'll have to look on map and browse around, it would only be a few days and I fly into Bozeman so I figured it might be a good alternative before I get to OF
21:01:37 <DanS working> Mesa Falls nice too
21:01:39 <linda> Kevin L™ 🌵, what kind of bear place? :)
21:01:47 <Mario> we also love the St Anthony sand dunes
21:01:51 <linda> DanS working, :thumbsup:
21:01:58 <linda> Mario, :thumbsup:
21:02:58 <linda> they all sound great
21:03:07 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Walking the trails at the lava flow is fun too.
21:03:11 <linda> car rentals dropped alot
21:03:47 <linda> saved $700 by just making another reservation >(
21:04:07 <Kevin L™ 🌵> How far south are you thinking of going?
21:04:56 <linda> Kevin L™ 🌵, no idea really I'll have to look at it. I guess I want to within reasonable driving distance to YNP
21:05:58 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Where are you flying into?
21:06:07 <linda> Kevin L™ 🌵, bozeman
21:06:29 <linda> so I'd be coming down west side anyway
21:06:51 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Roads OK from there?
21:07:24 <linda> :) I have no idea but this isn't until august :)
21:07:47 <DanS working> Both 191 and 287 okay as of today
21:08:05 <linda> DanS working, thats good
21:08:08 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Good
21:09:14 <Kevin L™ 🌵> The back side of the Tetons from Ashton are fun.
21:09:48 <linda> Kevin L™ 🌵, that's a thought
21:10:32 <linda> 3hrs 15m from west yellowstone to craters of the moon
21:10:42 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Watch for animals on that road
21:11:02 <linda> Kevin L™ 🌵, :thumbsup:
21:11:40 <linda> 3 hrs isn't too bad
21:12:16 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Pretty stuff along the route too
21:12:40 <linda> Kevin L™ 🌵, looks like a beautiful state
21:13:13 <Kevin L™ 🌵> If it wasn't so cold I would like to live there.
21:13:16 <linda> geez it's late
21:13:40 <linda> thanks for the suggestions I will follow up on some
21:13:45 <linda> have a good night
21:14:11 <Kevin L™ 🌵> I will ask my daughter. She may have more. Night.
21:14:22 <linda> Kevin L™ 🌵, thx, night
21:19:59 <Kevin L™ 🌵> Great bsb