06:24:42
<Kat (phone)> Can still down! I'll keep checking told morning.
07:45:32
<Dave from B™> What is happening here?
07:46:11
<0> cam down since fri
07:48:18
<Dave from B™> I figured it has been awhile...no one is in here
07:48:55
<Dave from B™> Well, almost no one:)
07:49:41
<0> I don;t count:)
07:49:58
<Dave from B™> Well, your log in is 0:D
07:50:25
<0> :thumbsup:>(
07:57:05
<Kat (phone)> Cam went down on Saturday AM. Just checking in! :)
07:58:17
<Dave from B™> Morning Ket. Are we hopeful for a fix today? Do you have any inside info?
07:58:30
<Dave from B™> Who's Ket? Morning KAT
08:40:25
<Katie 🐻> Ah, so that's why Michelle asked me to go reboot it when I was in the Park this weekend...
08:42:15
<Dave from B™> And, you ignored her?:D
09:01:52
<Kat> Dave from B™, hoping to hear something today
09:08:08
<Dave from B™> Katie, how was the Lamar area?
09:08:47
<Katie 🐻> Dave from B™, there are places where it doesn't look like anything at all happened and places where changes are dramatic.
09:09:29
<Katie 🐻> *VERY* impressed with the repaired sections - done quickly and well
09:10:59
<Dave from B™> If weather holds maybe we will take a drive
09:12:10
<0> cam info The webcam is still down. A reset of the radio transmitter and receiver did not solve the problem
09:13:03
<0> more investigation to happen
09:13:19
<Katie 🐻> 0, thanks
09:13:21
<Katie 🐻> standing by
09:14:15
<Katie 🐻> Dave, did you see my post about 4.5 hour creep from Gibbon Meadows to Madison thanks to idiots who didn't go around/through bison near Gibbon Meadows where there was room for bison to move off road but instead pushed them down the road to Gibbon Falls area?
09:14:15
<Dave from B™> 0, thanks for the update.
09:14:48
<Kat> They have called in radio technician to help! Thanks for all thier hard work!
09:15:18
<Katie 🐻> Well, shit. This radio tech spent the weekend in the park. But happily off duty.
09:15:21
<Dave from B™> Katie, I have seen a few posts about the bisaon issue
09:15:25
<Kat> Katie 🐻, Looks like you had a good weekend! Thanks for the pics of Lamar!
09:15:45
<Kat> Katie 🐻, LOL
09:16:16
<0> My bet is the roof top power was turned off during the shut down :)
09:16:21
<Katie 🐻> Kat, after I made a point of not reserving a "tent only" site, the system had me in a tent only site and the campground host made a big deal of moving me to another site. Fine. Except... GRRR
09:17:12
<Katie 🐻> I'm going to be writing some letters. A vehicle still gets parked there. It's ridiculous.
09:17:18
<Kat> Katie 🐻, crazy - I don't understand what the big deal is if folks want to car camp!
09:17:59
<Katie 🐻> Not if we are doing it legal and legit at designated site, anyway. But being obstructionist when someone has a reservation is likely to encourage out of bounds camping.
09:18:27
<Kevin L™ 🌵> Dave really broke it good this time.
09:18:36
<Dave from B™> Aren't they concerned about tent spots being taken by others?
09:18:38
<Kat> Agree! I have reservations and I think I picked a tent only site! Guess we'll see what happens.
09:18:44
<Katie 🐻> Is this because the Dodgers lost?
09:19:33
<Kat> Hahaha -
09:19:49
<Katie 🐻> Kat, I'm going to go to REI and ask what they do with the little model tents. :D Seriously. I am. And if I can get one, next time I meet an obstructionist, I'll say, truthfully, that I have a tent. I'll put a little 1' tent on a pad. :D
09:20:19
<Kat> That;s funny - I thought about doing the same thing! I would pay for one! LOL
09:20:21
<Katie 🐻> I am HAPPY to leave sites with good tent pads for those with tents. I don't seek to tie those up. But I don't want to tie up a site suitable for a big RV to park a Jeep, either.
09:20:58
<Katie 🐻> I camped in my tent for many nights over many years. Now I don't spend time making and breaking camp. That's all there is to it.
09:21:53
<Kat> I just don't like being all the way in the back of madison. But - anywhere is really fine - just going to sleep for the most part!
09:22:32
<Dave from B™> Katie, this is a very normal feeling for this time in October for me...nothing new over the past 10 years
09:22:33
<Katie 🐻> And since I have to run CPAP, sleeping in Jeep is much easier. I ran extension cord to tent for many nights over many years, but then I occasionally had hosts concerned I was running a heater and would start a tent fire.
09:22:43
<Kat> Katie 🐻, When it's really cold I'm more comfortable car camping! Not thrilled about tent camping in the spring too
09:23:18
<Dave from B™> There are more and more car campers every year.
09:23:35
<Dave from B™> We see it everywhere we go
09:23:51
<Dave from B™> We had some awesome BLM boondocking places in the past month
09:23:54
<Kat> It defiitely has become a thing - I think increasing lodging costs has impacted it too
09:24:37
<Katie 🐻> My Jeep isn't any warmer than tent. There is only thin carpet over metal floor in the back. Metal is COLD. BUT, I have a bedroll with 2 broken zipper sleeping bags on top of it for insulation from that cold metal. Then my super warm monster 11 pound warm sleeping bag.
09:24:38
<Dave from B™> Yep. lodging costs have sped up the change
09:26:19
<Kat> Katie 🐻, :thumbsup: Sounds like me - I think I'm warmer in the Pathfinder
09:26:48
<Katie 🐻> I don't run Jeep. On long January nights, I do start it sometime during the night to make sure I don't have dead battery for cold start after running CPAP all night. But that's it,
09:27:12
<Dave from B™> Do they make battery powered heaters?
09:28:17
<Kat> I got a warnong once because my cae was on - I had just pulled in! Ranger said there's a 10 second rule to turn off car! All the years I've been going and never heard that before!
09:28:32
<Kat> warning*
09:28:50
<Katie 🐻> They might. But even in January, the way I have my nest set up, I'm fine in my nest. I do also, in January, use my second remote start (Jeep will only remote start twice in a row) to warm it up for a few minutes before exiting my sleeping bag.
09:29:09
<Katie 🐻> Compendium says you can warm a vehicle up for 10 minutes. I keep a copy of compendium on my phone!
09:29:21
<Kat> So you car camp on winter too?
09:29:26
<Katie 🐻> Yup
09:30:02
<Kat> Katie 🐻, I'll have to look for that - it's nice to warm up some before crawling out of the bag or changing clothes!
09:30:26
<Kevin L™ 🌵> My idea of roughing it is a room with no wifi.
09:30:27
<Kat> Katie 🐻, Never tried it but I've seen folks in tents at mammoth in winter
09:30:37
<Kat> Kevin L™ 🌵, LOL
09:31:05
<Katie 🐻> I have never experienced any "guff" from campground hosts ever before over probably a hundred nights of tent and Jeep camping. Every other host has always been wonderful. I wasn't mentally prepared for obstructionism.
09:31:13
<Dave from B™> Kevin, we had a great spot on BLM land just east of the Virgin River Gorge
09:31:35
<Dave from B™> End of season grumpiness from the camp host?
09:31:43
<Kat> I asked to change site last year and there were plenty and they gave me a hard time!
09:31:47
<Kevin L™ 🌵> Pretty spots out there.
09:32:11
<Kat> They were grumpy in May too! I think it's madison!
09:32:27
<Katie 🐻> Dave from B™, maybe. Or a bad day. Or a grumpy customer before me. And he did find a site to move me to, and it worked out, but there was no need for any of that.
09:33:10
<Kat> Definitely not needed when you've been on the road and first arriving!
09:33:16
<Katie 🐻> In fact, the site he selected for me was PERFECT. Right next to facilities. Small level parking spot. Perfect for me. It was the attitude.
09:33:24
<Dave from B™> Kevin, we are trying to more boondocking to keep avg nightly cost low. We try to average under $35/night. It's tough when beach sites or balloon event costs are 80+ a night
09:34:05
<Kat> That's all I need - a level spot not far from br
09:34:09
<Dave from B™> Some time I think hosts want their free site and want to work as little as possible
09:34:15
<Kevin L™ 🌵> I can relate.
09:35:31
<Katie 🐻> "There is a better site for you than the one you have reserved, I'm going to move you to that" would have had me glowing rather than grumbling over the "no, you can't use that site" (a site for which I indicated my camping type because it DID have a check box for that and was NOT labeled as "tent only)
09:36:20
<Katie 🐻> This was the first time I used an Xanterra managed site. I much prefer NPS management!!!!
09:36:34
<Ryan> Well this is unfortunate
09:36:36
<Kat> I was just getting ready to say that!
09:38:06
<Katie 🐻> And National Forest sites, too - June through Sept, I have used NFS sites off Beartooth (and dispersed sites there, too, but I do like to have a site that I KNOW will still be MINE when I get back to it)
09:38:12
<Dave from B™> Ryan, just turn your head light on and you'll be fine. We're just in a cave.
09:38:36
<Ryan> Hah!
09:38:44
<Ryan> Morning all
09:39:11
<Dave from B™> Katie, yeah, I've never dispersed camped 2 nights in a row in the same place, so I totally get that.
09:40:43
<Ryan> Kevin, I tried train photography with the big camera this weekend. Didn't go too great haha
09:40:57
<Dave from B™> For those of you who like to plan ahead......come meet us in Hill Country for the 2024 eclipse!
09:44:07
<Kevin L™ 🌵> Are you going to do the annular eclipse Dave?
09:46:52
<Dave from B™> no
09:53:01
<Kevin L™ 🌵> I haven't seen one of those so since it is so close I am going to do it.
10:07:06
<Ryan> Not sure if y'all saw the news, but the caving community suffered a pretty tragic loss over the weekend.
10:07:43
<Ryan> https://www.joplinglobe.com/news/local_news/cave-diver-dies-at-roaring-river/article_241d12c8-4cd5-11ed-b0d2-134f7b1a749a.html
10:09:17
<Ryan> Very unsettling to have a sudden hole like that in your community. It's a very sad day here.
10:10:26
<Dave from B™> Sorry Ryan. What does an inappropriate amount of oxygen mean?
10:33:00
<Kat> Very sad Ryan!
10:34:10
<Katie 🐻> Ryan, sorry for the loss. My condolences to all who love him.
10:34:32
<Katie 🐻> It's too much oxygen. The re-breather didn't mix gases appropriately. Super sad
10:41:45
<Dave from B™> Thanks, Katie.
10:45:15
<.don> How "down" is the webcam?
10:46:38
<Katie 🐻> .don, pretty down. Initial attempts to restore if haven't been successful - so not an easy "reboot" fix. But they are working on it.
10:46:51
<.don> Thanx
10:49:16
<Ryan> Sorry, had to step away.
10:49:47
<Ryan> Dave, apparently the body can't handle too much oxygen at higher pressures.
10:51:25
<Ryan> Today feels disorienting.
10:51:58
<Ryan> Spent the weekend with caver friends doing what we do in times like this: get outside, get active, then sit around a fire, drink, and let it out.
10:52:11
<Katie 🐻> Ryan, I'm sure. When equipment fails, it's...
10:52:49
<Dave from B™> Ryan, I'm assuming you had been on trips with Eric?
10:52:57
<Ryan> But being back in Maryland its just hitting differently. This is the 10th or 11th death in our community in the last three years. Some to cancer, one to suicide, a few to age, but three young people due to accidents.
10:53:21
<Ryan> Yes - we werent in contact much for a bit but we were very close for a couple of years not long ago.
10:54:56
<Dave from B™> Ryan, I thought of you when in Carlsbad. The beauty underground is amazing
10:59:52
<Ryan> I appreciate that, Dave. Carlsbad is a very special place.
11:01:16
<Dave from B™> I found myself wanting to learn more about its beginning days and also how the elevators effected things underground
11:27:38
<Betty> morning all
11:27:58
<Kevin L™ 🌵> Hi
11:28:01
<Betty> still no cam :-( not good
11:28:11
<Betty> hi Kevin L™ 🌵
11:36:02
<Dave from B™> Hey Betty
11:36:50
<Betty> hi Dave from B™, :-)
11:41:15
<Dave from B™> Is Graham coming to see you again or is he sticking to Italy only?
11:41:49
<Betty> I think he is only to Italy this time
11:47:33
<Dave from B™> Betty,
11:48:02
<Dave from B™> World Cup is coming soon. what 3 countries will carry trophies this year?
11:50:30
<Betty> I think it will be between Brazil, England and France
11:51:08
<Betty> what do you think?
11:57:11
<Dave from B™> Every since my daughters quit playing I haven't paid much attention. Those seem like 3 good picks. I know Argentina has also been playing well. I hope we get some surprises along the way
11:58:18
<Dave from B™> I hope USA can get out of our group but not expecting it
12:05:18
<Ryan> Had to step out again - Dave I have some of that information about the early Carlsbad days and the elevators.
12:05:39
<Ryan> The elevators dont change much. I think they entire system is air sealed so there is very little air moving in or out.
12:05:57
<Ryan> As for the early days... well, did you see the cable ladders in the entrance passage?
12:07:37
<Dave from B™> I saw ladders and ropes throughtout the caverns...one going down to the lower room, I believe
12:08:17
<Dave from B™> Ryan, I guess in the early days before things were sealed up, many features dried with elevator construction
12:08:55
<Dave from B™> We walked down from the entrance and then did the big room tour. Guided tour was full
12:09:13
<Ryan> That was how most travel through the cave was accomplished - those ladders. There is a cave in the backcountry we went to where the entrance was a 350ft pit and you rappelled past that type of ladder dangling in the void next to you.
12:09:16
<Ryan> Those people had guts.
12:09:21
<Dave from B™> You have to walk down the entrance trail. It lets you know howe trult far underground you are.
12:10:09
<Ryan> I've done it twice - once from the entrance down and out the elevators, and once down the elevator and then up and out the entrance
12:11:18
<Dave from B™> My knees had a tough time with the descent. We only saw 1 person hiking back out
12:12:00
<Ryan> When we were there in 2017 the main entrance was closed - so we took the elevator down. Then they opened it and we decided to take it up and out.
12:12:35
<Ryan> There used to be a third entrance which they drilled open to mine bat guano.
12:13:04
<Ryan> That entrance caused air flow issues I think. But to tour the cave for a while you stood in a 3ft diameter metal bucket with 9 other people and got winched down ~160ft
12:14:04
<Dave from B™> 10 people in a bucket...that was a big bucket
12:14:19
<Ryan> Actually it was very much not a big bucket
12:14:22
<Dave from B™> 3 ft dioamter...yikes
12:15:15
<Dave from B™> The bat flight at night was fun as well
12:15:21
<Ryan> Here is one with only four or five folks in it: https://www.nps.gov/cave/learn/historyculture/images/gb_elevator_1924_556.jpg?maxwidth=650&autorotate=false
12:15:44
<Betty> that way down was on someone´s "bucket list"
12:16:07
<Betty> ugh
12:17:32
<Dave from B™> If I'm going down in a bucket with 9 others, I'm choosing who I'm that close to!
12:18:31
<Ryan> data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAoHCBYWFRgWFhYYGBgaGhoeGhwaHBweGB8cIRoaGhocIRgcIS4lHB4rIRwaJjgmKy8xNTU1GiQ7QDs0Py40NTEBDAwMBgYGEAYGEDEdFh0xMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMTExMf/AABEIAP0AxwMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAbAAACAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAADBAECBQYAB//EAEAQAAIBAgQCCAMFBwIGAwAAAAECEQAhAwQSMUFRBSJhcYGRocEysdEGE0Lh8BRSYnKCkvEjwhUzU3OiskNj0v/EABQBAQAAAAAAAAAAA
12:19:02
<Ryan> https://flickr.com/photos/131878030@N04/32496169811/in/album-72157676098762484/
12:19:31
<Ryan> ^Thats the backcountry cave with the ladder going down the big pit. If you zoom in past the ladder you'll see a person standing down there at the bottom
12:20:30
<Ryan> They did the same thing in the Carlsbad entrance, but instead of it being ~300ft it was for several hundred.
12:25:14
<Dave from B™> Ryan, it is intersting to me that ladders are left in the caves if they are no longer being used.
12:26:41
<Ryan> By this point its all considered historic
12:26:56
<Ryan> We actually had to rig that pit a very specific way to avoid interacting with the ladder
12:27:03
<Ryan> (which was fine by me)
12:27:21
<Dave from B™> Yeah, that was what I was thinking. They could get in the way
12:28:01
<Ryan> My favorite part is that ledge in that photo. The ladder is basically single strand wire with some sticks for rungs. As you back over that ledge though into the abyss that ladder changed to triple stranded cabling and logs.
12:28:25
<Ryan> Someone backed over that lip and thought "Holy ****, we're gonna need a bigger ladder!" and I've chuckled ever since thinking about it.
12:28:53
<Ryan> They did that stuff essentially one handed with lanterns. My god, we use specialized equipment and I still feel uneasy!
12:31:16
<Dave from B™> I imagine caving was even more dangerous in the early days
12:32:00
<Dave from B™> Even some of the places they put lighting astounded me. It was like, how did someone get up there?
12:32:56
<Ryan> Balloons in some cases
12:33:03
<Ryan> Lift a rope up and hang it.
12:33:27
<Ryan> At least in the Big Room. If there is a wall you can scale the wall.
12:38:47
<Dave from B™> Ryan, for someone who likes caves, where do you recommend going? I'm just a hiker, remember. No ropes, please.
12:39:18
<Dave from B™> I've been to Wind Cave, Jewel Cave, Carlsbad and Lewis & Clark
12:49:11
<Ryan> Hmmm
12:49:26
<Ryan> Mammoth in Kentucky is very nice. Grand and Luray in Virginia is great
12:49:31
<Ryan> Cathedral in Alabama is spectacular
12:50:53
<Dave from B™> Thanks. I'll put them on our bucket list
12:51:52
<Dave from B™> We working on a way to explore the east and only invest half the miles by taking 2 trips back east/south during the same year and storing our van for 5-6 weeks and fly home
12:52:32
<Ryan> There are a few places I could take you that do not involve crawling, climbing, etc, and are just impressive caves to see that involve a lot of walking - if you're ever interested.
12:53:32
<Dave from B™> I appreciate the offer. I will need to get in better shape to be able to walk longer distances. Fitness has taken a back seat for the last year and I feel it.
12:54:19
<Ryan> Well... " alot" being relative.
12:54:21
<Ryan> Less than Carlsbad
12:55:00
<Dave from B™> okay then. When we plan something your direction, I will reach out to you.
12:55:30
<henri> anybody on here know whats up with centuryLink connection for webcam?
12:55:38
<Ryan> I've never walked as much in any cave as I ever have in Carlsbad!
12:55:41
<Dave from B™> The only thing I hated about Carlsbad was leaving our 2 dogs in a metal crate in their kennel for over 4 hours
12:56:01
<Ryan> Oh heck, you can just bring them in whereever I take you.
12:56:59
<Ryan> One cave I have on the list of places to take folks is like a subway tunnel. I walk through it in my bare feet. The passage is 1100ft long, 40ft wide and 40ft tall with a flat sand floor and a small stream in it. You walk 1000ft and turn around and still see the entrance.
12:57:07
<Ryan> The owners dogs usually follow us in haha
12:58:24
<Dave from B™> So, I see Carlsbad used to offer a lot of guided tours. Were they a victum of covid?
12:58:57
<Ryan> COVID and NPS politics
12:59:33
<Ryan> Its a long story, one I will not share here, but essentially the same "catering to the lowest common denominator" management style we've seen in Yellowstone is happening elsewhere.
13:05:28
<Dave from B™> Yeah. It's a shame. I loved the half day guided hi,kes to Iceberg Lake in Glacier. I think staffing shortages is also causing decreases in that type of offering. But, it is important to allow those who want a deeper understanding of an early the opportunity. Outside guides are too expensive.
13:06:29
<Dave from B™> early = area...not sure how that happened
13:19:34
<Kevin L™ 🌵> Loose nut behind the keyboard.
13:29:11
<Ryan> Right now almost all caving is shut down in the entirety of Carlsbad Cavern National Park because of stuff like this.
13:29:17
<Ryan> It's pretty ridiculous.
13:29:32
<Ryan> I have to head out now.
13:29:52
<Ryan> Hug your friends, love your families. Stuff goes sideways fast sometimes.
13:30:26
<Kevin L™ 🌵> Take care Ryan
13:32:10
<Dave from B™> Take care Ryan. Thoughts to you and your loved ones
14:32:32
<Kevin L™ 🌵> For Dave: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zGvtBCgKeY&ab_channel=bikerdude990
14:48:34
<L> Ah circle, guess it's not fixed
14:49:18
<L> I'll check back at shift time
14:49:58
<Kevin L™ 🌵> Good luck with that.
15:53:19
<linda> OF
15:53:58
<Kevin L™ 🌵> Are you talking about the geyser or the spinning circle?
15:56:45
<linda> Kevin L™ 🌵, GEYSER:)
15:58:04
<linda> Kevin L™ 🌵, HI
15:58:21
<Kevin L™ 🌵> Hi